Podcast: Kevin Harris Talks About How Innovative Offsite Metal Fabrication Helps Streamline Railing Installation

Podcast Transcription

Jerry Howard

Welcome to Housing Developments. I’m Jerry Howard, and with me is Jim Tobin. We’ve got a very important guest with us here today, Kevin Harris, who I’m sure you know because he’s very active in several levels of the NAHB.

He is the co-chair of the board of trustees of our Leading Suppliers Council. He’s a trustee for the Remodelers Council and the liaison for the council through the NAHB Single Family Builders Committee. He is a very involved guy at NAHB.

When he’s not doing that, he is the Director of Sales and Marketing for AGS Stainless, a railing manufacturer specializing in offsite fabrication of custom rails. Kevin, welcome to the show.

Kevin Harris

Thanks, Jerry. Happy to be here.

Jim Tobin

Kevin Harris

Good to see you, Jim.

Jerry Howard

Kevin, how do you have time to do anything for AGS when you’re so busy with the NAHB?

Kevin Harris

Well, it’s kind of a nice situation where a lot of our clients are builders, so I look at it as a way to give back. If it weren’t for builders, we’d have no business. So me being able to share some of the strength of a product manufacturer in support of the people who really keep us in business, it’s really a privilege.

Jerry Howard

That’s terrific. I think that that kind of volunteerism and give-back attitude is what makes our organization as powerful and as effective as it is. Thanks for giving us some of your time too. Listen, tell us a little bit about AGS.

Kevin Harris

Well, we’re unique as a railing manufacturer. Most stainless railing that’s included on a project is created by a metal fabricator who is located in the vicinity of the project. The fabricator then builds what they can of the railing in their shop, then relies on onsite adjustments to dial the railing system in. So at AGS Stainless, we’ve really taken the lead in our industry for railing manufacture with this offsite fabrication.

The difference is we will fabricate the railings system 100% offsite. So there’s no onsite adjustments or cutting or welding. We componentize the railing system, number all the components, create the easy-to-follow installation instructions, and send the railing system out, regardless of complexity, ready to be installed. That does a couple of really nice things for our builder partners.

Number one, it keeps them from having to be dependent on a highly skilled labor source, which are metal fabricators. So because the railing is custom designed for that project, and then completely fabricated, anyone on the builders’ team can install the railing system. There’s no need for a highly skilled metal fabricator. That’s one of the really big pluses: it gives control of the railing installation back to the builder. The builder is not dependent on another business, a metal fabricator, to control that part.

Jerry Howard

Kevin, so how does the builder interact with you? So I get it. You fabricate offsite, send the railing to the job site, and the builder and his crew install it. But where’s the builder? At the front end of that process?

Kevin Harris

So usually, the very, very front end on higher-end custom homes is the architect. So we spend a lot of time helping architects to appreciate that, not just with our product custom railing, but with many products that they’re using in their projects. If there is a chance to use something that’s been prefabricated, then they’re going to do their builders a real service because the builders then aren’t dependent on highly skilled labor to execute that part of the project.

So we do a lot of continuing education on projects like remodels, things like that. They don’t always have an architect or design build firm. So they’re really helping the builder because we are specialists in railing fabrication. We’ve been doing this for over 30 years. It’s the only thing we do. Local fabricators or building fence systems and trellises and awnings and tables and, you know, anything out of metal, we only do railing systems. So there’s no railing challenge that we haven’t dealt with many times. We’ll provide all the engineering calculations, technical drawings. We’re just a really great resource for that part of the builder’s project.

Jerry Howard

And so, the builder doesn’t have to have any of his team trained to do this. They just follow the instructions, and away it goes.

Kevin Harris

Yeah, Jerry that’s exactly right. So we started off prefabricating the railing, all set up for the homeowner to install it. So we made our system super simple. What we find is the first time a builder works with us, they’re hooked because it’s the simplest railing installation they’ve ever been involved with because everything was custom designed for that home and prefabricated.

So the railing shows up ready to be installed. It gets installed very, very quickly. And the builder is off to the next project because, as you know, the railing is typically one of the last things that’s handled before you get the certificate of occupancy. So helping builders to get off that project and onto the next one, while reducing their installation time is one of the big benefits of working with someone who fabricates entirely offsite.

Jerry Howard

Hey, Kevin. So two questions as we’re coming out of the pandemic. One, how did the pandemic affect your sales and your business, and what did you see with your customer base? Two, you know, obviously steel is one of the one big components. There’s been a lot of disruption in the supply chain. Tell us how the pandemic is either helped or disrupted just the raw materials and your ability to provide the product to the store.

Kevin Harris

Yeah, thanks for that question Jerry. So on the subject of how did we do? We did very well. Our industry stairs, railing, outdoor living products fared very well over the last few years. With a lot of people refinancing, having money to spend, spending time at home, looking around saying, I should fix up that. Well, replacing the old railing on your interior stairs is one of the most cost-effective ways to completely revitalize your indoor living space. Particularly for stainless, there’s no commonly used material for railing that exceeds stainless for individual impact. And if you think about it in terms of buying kitchen appliances, you know, you’ve got a Sub-Zero refrigerator or a Wolf gas range. What are the chances they’re going to put aluminum on the front of those high-end appliances? It’s going to be limited. If there’s going to be metal on the front of a very expensive kitchen appliance, it’s going to be stainless steel because stainless has that wow factor. You walk into the space, and you just go, that’s gorgeous.

Well, more and more people have been willing to invest more, especially in their outdoor living spaces. And so, with the ease of obtaining information on the internet, people are discovering stainless is a great option. Even though it’s not the number one metal used for railing — that’s aluminum.

A lot of people are asking how much is it going to cost to redo my outdoor living space? Before buying anything, they look around, and then many homeowners discover stainless. They don’t have to have an architect recommend it; once they see it, they’re all in.

So we found that our level of business increased, and a lot of it was driven by the homeowners themselves. For us, because we have a super standardized product, we only do railing and offsite fabrication. To meet the value proposition, you can’t create everything that a fabricator could create. So whatever the architect dreams up, a local metal fabricator can create.

With offsite fabrication, you have to standardize. Rather than having 200 different styles, we have the two most common styles. Rather than having flowery leaves, and all the other cool stuff fabricators can do. We have five different super attractive infill options, and then additionally, we fabricate to the industry’s highest standard of quality. So when you take all those things, we limit choices to just the strongest candidates.

We buy our raw materials very concentrated. So where a local fabricator gets the order and then goes and buys what’s necessary on a one-off basis. We buy all of the raw materials that we’re going to need for the year in advance. So we have been able to move very easily through the supply chain shortage because we standardized on the materials that we purchase, and we buy in huge quantities.

We fabricate more stainless railing for single-family residential construction than any other metal fabricator in the US (To the best of my knowledge). That allows us to really standardize, like, for example, the stainless quality. The most common stainless for railing fabrications is 304. We standardize 316, which is known as marine grade stainless. Buying in huge quantities allows us to bring the cost of 316 stainless down, so we can offer it to all of our clients.

So again, great question. It really lends itself to the topic. What a difference offsite fabrication and modular construction techniques can make. What advantage those techniques can bring to the construction industry, especially dealing with the housing shortage. Offsite fabrication and modular construction are the tools that will help us get a better hold on the housing shortage.

Jerry Howard

I assume that our building members will be able to see your product and learn more about it. At the forthcoming International Builders Show in Las Vegas. Is that correct?

Yeah, Jerry, we are big, big supporters of the International Builders Show. It’s an opportunity for us to show the builders what’s new, what we’re working on that’s new. Typically, we’re participating either in The New American Model, New American Home, or Show Village, where we’re showing our railing install. That gives us an opportunity to really work one on one with the builders that are attending.

So we were just so pleasantly surprised and pleased with the attendance at the 2022 Builder Show. I think that in all the conversations I’ve had with builders, everyone is super excited about 2023 in Las Vegas. So we’re eager to get there, and it’s going to be a great time.

Jerry Howard

Well, let me just say this to you. You’re right. Registration for the show opened the first of this month, and we’re running well ahead of where we were for the same time last year’. We’re going to have a super show, and I hope it brings you and your company a whole lot of success, Kevin.

• REGISTER for IBS 2023
• Discover more about AGS Stainless at the NAHB International Builders’ Show

Kevin Harris

Thanks, Jerry. We’ll take it.

Jerry Howard

Kevin, does AGS have any new products coming on the market? You laid out your product line, but is there anything new that our builders should be aware of?

Absolutely. So, although we’ve been doing custom railing for over 30 years, most of the clients we work with are high-end custom home builders. One of the things we wanted to do was to allow more budget-friendly projects to enjoy the beauty of stainless steel on their stairs and decks. So we created a product that is new to the market, but it’s really finding a lot of support. We found a way to eliminate the need for custom design work from the stainless railing product so that it could be inventoried along with all the aluminum railing products bought at local lumber yards.

That product is called Cascadia, and it’s a rod rail system that builders and homeowners are loving. I’ll just give you one quick example. Everybody loves cable, rail. Well, one of the challenges of cable rail is that periodically someone has to go around and tighten and re-tension the cable runs. This rod rail system doesn’t require any periodic re-tensioning.

There are only eight components. Again, it’s called Cascadia, and instead of having a post for a straight run, a post for the stairs, and a post for the corners. You know, cable rail systems have scores of parts. Cascadia has eight components. The same posts that you use on the stairs, you use on the straight runs. We simplified the system so that it could be easy for building material sellers and dealers to inventory and easy for the builders to install.

Kevin Harris

It allowed the cost to come down from what you would typically expect from a custom stainless railing. It allowed the costs to come down so that it could compete head to head against your typical aluminum cable rail system. So again, that product is called Cascadia. It’s available at local lumber yards throughout the country. We’re really excited about it and are hoping that more and more builders can discover it.

As I mentioned before, with the high-end appliances, when you put stainless railing on your project, you’re doing more than just providing functionality. There are a lot of different ways to keep people safe walking up and down the stairs, right? When you use stainless, you put a functional artwork in your client’s home. You install a product that can add just as much beauty to the living space as a painting or sculpture. We’re hoping that more and more builders discover Cascadia because it will allow them to level up their clients’ homes, and the clients will thank them.

Jerry Howard

You sold me, Kevin. My wife and I are getting ready to do some renovations on our outdoor space in our house. I’ll tell her about AGS and how to take a good look.

Kevin Harris

Sounds good, Jerry. Thank you.

Jerry Howard

Thanks for being with us. We really appreciate you taking the time.

Kevin Harris

My pleasure. Take care, gentlemen.

Jerry Howard

Well, Jim, you said it. That was a very interesting interview with Mr. Harris. Kevin is a really, really good guy and a guy who’s so active in NAHB. I really hope that our listeners will consider using his products when they’re looking at their next project.

Jim Tobin

Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. You know, our Leading Suppliers Council, just like our Associates Council at large, doing this for the members is really, really important to both builders and our suppliers. So looking forward to seeing him, not only in his role at the leadership meeting in Kansas City but also again at the IBS in Las Vegas.

Jerry Howard

And when we come back for our next broadcast, we’ll be getting into the political situation. You never know what will happen with the ebbs and flows of life. And I only predicted in the spring that the New York Yankees would win the World Series. They seem to have faded over the course of the summer, but they’re bouncing back. Yeah, just as baseball changes regularly, so does politics. Jim and I will keep our fingers to the wind, and we’ll be back with you soon to keep you guys informed. And with that, I’ll say thanks for listening to Housing Developments. I’m Jerry Howard.

Jerry Howard

I’m Jerry Howard.

Jim Tobin

And I’m Jim Tobin. Goodbye.